GAUTENG TAKES IT ALL at SASSU/USSA 2008
July 7, 2008 in Events, KwaZulu Natal, League, News, Other
The much anticipated finals took place, on the 4th of June at the University of Cape Town, were big Gauteng rival teams came face to face; to decide who the 2008 USSA/SASSU champions will be.
Teams were well prepared and mental games were scheduled. The first final was the University of Johannesburg vs. The University of Pretoria (ladies), after meeting each other during the group stages and UJ losing to TUKS. UJ were very determined in winning the championship, but TUKS was not going to let that happen. The game was close from the jump ball and it was the team which was mentally stronger, that was to win the championship. Requelh Molema was the dominating player of the game, on both ends of the court. The 3 point line was like shooting free throws for the young lady from Sheshigo (Limpopo). Requelh averaged more than 20 points and was 3 for 4 from the line. From shot blocks to steals, UJ had trouble breaking the sold defence TUKS was playing. Makghotso Moloantoa had an exceptional game and was putting up numbers for the UJ team, though she played out of her guard position, she knew were to go and what to do, down at the post. Both teams showed a lot of heart on the court but the ladies TUKS was the team that came out victorious at the end, winning the 2008 USSA/SASSU champions.
Next up was the battle of the Gladiators. VUT vs. UJ (men’s). The game had the crowed on their feet from the get go and with VUTS’ big men Thabang Kgwedi and Toka Motaung being on foul trouble in the first quarter, you would thought that UJ would have used that to their advantage. There were awesome performances from the boys in orange like the likes of Lucky Loate who was very productive on the offensive side of the court, when he made a steal, got fouled on the 3 point line and still made the 3, making UJ lead for the first time at the end of the first half. Thabo Letsebe and Keogatile Amogelang (aka Angola) were on point on defence, just not enough to stop Nhlanhla Dlamini and Ayanda “Jordan” Shange. The score was tied at 62-62 with 2minutes and 10seconds remaining during the forth quarter. Miracles were pulled and the crowed were on their feet; with 19 second left and the score being 64-63 to VUT. The ball was in (Shooter) Nladi Mogumutsi’s hands at the 3 point line, when he missed 2 open shots that could have won the game for UJ. Unfortunately they too came up short. The defending champs Vaal University of Technology showed everyone that they can win without Neo Mothiba when they came up top wining the game 64-63.
The level of competition at this tournament was immense, show casing the amount of talent the country has to offer in terms of basketball. Gauteng defiantly came up top as they scooped everything, from All Stars to MVPS’. This competition is the best thing that’s happened to University basketball in a very long time. Basketball South Africa should really consider having competitions were provinces can select district teams to participate in a National tournament. Just like it was done back in the days. Congratulations to The University of Cape Town for hosting such a wonderful event and congratulations to all the institutions that participated. We hope to see more from all the teams’ text year.
Ladies All Stars
Ellen Mothwatsi (UJ)
Lungile Motsweni (UJ)
Takalani Mfamadi (TUKS)
Requelh Molema (TUKS)
Seipati Mokhathini (VUT)
Men’s All Stars
Lucky Loate (UJ)
Thabo Letsebe (UJ)
Ayanda Shange (VUT)
Nhlanhla Dlamini (VUT)
Thabang Kgwedi (VUT)
Most Valuable Players (MVP)
Requelh Molema (TUKS) (last picture above)
Nhlanhla Dlamini (VUT)
Coaches of the tournament
Nicky de Villiers (TUKS)-ladies
Flosh Ngwenya (VUT)-men
Article written by Nthabiseng Mushi
Baller said on July 17, 2008
ooops,we debated about the USSA’s so now lets get back to GBL..who if winning the league??well,i’ll go for Vaal with the men cos they don’t have much of competition there..
with the women, an divided between Tuks, UJ and Raptors..Vaal and Wits being the underdogs..
Nthabiseng said on July 17, 2008
Baller
Smart shots to us, are the shots you take when is necessary not when we are trying to push the score per say or trying to make a winning jumper but every now and then and you are right we attack the basket more drawing fouls. If you wana see if the Tuks ladies can really take shots you see it when we go to the line making most of our free throws.
GBL: That is a good question, on the ladies side, UJ will be trying to make a come back, Raptors will want to murder us and Vaal ladies want to be in the lime light again, so lets justy watch the space. Who is your money on baller? is it UJ again/
Baller said on July 17, 2008
am not sure who’s winning the womens’ division..my heart wants to go with the township team Raptors but my brain tells me UJ even thou they have lost the USSA’s..
i differ with your smart shot analysis..scoring a free throw you have to work on as much as a normal jump shot..
Neo said on July 17, 2008
The only way a person can determine whether a shot is a good or a bad one, you have to ask the person who took that shot. Shooting with a hand in your face might look like a bad shot, but the individual taking the shot thinks is good, taking a quick shot it may seem rushed but the shooter will disagree.
I have had this arguement before and I think we should search it. I have played against Angola and will tell you that they are a good shooting team. If you watch Angola for the first time you would think that they take bad shots all the time. If you play defense for 23 sec and they take a jumper in the last sec you would think that you made them take a rushed shot. Some players have so much confidence in their shots that even a 7 ft with their hand up will nt deter them.
In the former Russia they believed that the best time to score would be the first 8sec of the shot clock while in Angola is the last 8. Which one is right and which is wrong? Both teams are succesful in their approach yet they have different beliefs when it comes to scoring.
What do you think….
Baller said on July 17, 2008
thank you Neo for the explanation..hope you got that Nthabiseng..
kim said on July 17, 2008
It is very difficult to talk about good shots especially when you dont have a 24sec clock or game clock that you can use for your arguement.Im not sure about the idea of not wanting to push up the score per say because I believe everytime my team goes on offensive we should be looking to score.Whether its a layup.mid-jumper or 3pointer.Unless we are just killing time and the other is forced to foul or try steal the ball.That also involves a clock.
It is easiest(I believe) to determine whether a shot is good or bad when a clock is in play.Whether 24sec or when a game is on the line or ending a half or quarter.If you have less than 24secs then depending on the game situation you would want to score quickly then foul or you would want to take the last shot with mininum time ensuring that the other team doesnt have time to get a basket back.
If we look at the game against UJ/Vaal, 2 schools of thought regarding shooters shot might have arised.If he had got the shot in and 5 secs on the clock,someone would have said it was a bad shot because flosh couldve called timeout and then resumed from the halfway line and had a chance of tying or winning the game.
Another person wouldve said it was a good shot because shooting that early then gave his team a secong shot and if it goes in then Vaal doesnt have time to push the ball for one more shot.
I therefore dont see how one can convince myself on a bad or good without the clock being a factor and the situation of the game playing its part.
Thats what I think….
Baller said on July 17, 2008
we all have the same idea on that you can not tell if a shot is good or bad..that means therefore Nthabiseng’s argument on the smart shot falls off..
Nthabiseng said on July 17, 2008
I guess we all have different views on what a good and a bad shot is. Baller thats my opinion…
victor said on July 18, 2008
Hey Baller,
Hope you are well. There has been a widespread interest in your identity and maybe you should indulge the people’s interest. Your contribution to the forum is fantastic but some people would like to know who is behind that name Baller because it’s easy to make comments when people don’t know who they are talking to
.
Anyway I was having this argument yesterday and I proposed to throw it at you.
ciao,V
victor said on July 18, 2008
On the shot issue,
It’s all relative and depends on a lot of external factors (shot clock, level of competition, etc….) and internal factors (personal confidence, form, etc…))
So maybe there is no ideal answer.
ciao,V
Neo said on July 18, 2008
I think will take advantage of the Jargon used in basketball. Basketball lingo is unique and we need to take that into consideration. When Nthabiseng said Tuks takes smart shots doesnt mean the other teams take “stupid shots”. Its a matter of wording it out.
The question of the clocks and situations to me is all relative but at the end of the day, at that particular time a shot is taken. What qualifies that to be a good or bad shot..
Bad shot: 1. if there is a higher percentage shot than the initial shot. 2. If the player takes the shot and is not in his natural rhythm or balance. Point No2 would be very hard to determine unless you know the player’s (jumper) form. Take Reggie Miller for instance, he was one of the best 3pt shooters in our times, most of the jumpers he took looked awful yet he made a lot of them.
Im against people who shoot people down just because they took a jumper which they thought otherwise. What if had Shooter made that jumper? He would have been the saviour of UJ and people would be singing his praises. He looked composed, his form was natural and he was confident to me that was a good shot to take, but not under those circustances.
Ah well. I wish we could have a gathering and talk frankly about these issues.
kim said on July 18, 2008
Good point Neo and I think bball is not a blaming this person or that person.If people are still on shooters case then their understanding of the game is limited!
I hope no one raises that again.Neo,for interest sake,did you have engage the Angolian or Russian team regarding reasons why they take their shots in that manner?I have talked to some teams about this and just want to find out the similarities or diffences.
Baller said on July 18, 2008
most people forget that bball is a team spot and we either win or lose as a team..in my shot bball career i often find it strange that players blame their teammates or the coach for every game they loose..yet everytime they win they regard themselves as heroes..
blaming each other as teammates or supporters blaming a player for loosing to me is strange..sometimes we forget how many jumpers, lay-ups, free throws, rebounds, defensive blunders we all as a team did to loose and focus only on 1 moment cos the game was tight and towards the end..
Kim on the Russians taking shots quicker, i believe the reasoning behind is that teams are more vulnerable on transition defence therefore its much easier to attach then..
the angolans, their logic behind might be that they rather prefer to move the ball to tire the defence then take shots..that will force the other team to focus more on defence and that would affect their transition offence..
pls, that is only my perception..
Neo said on July 18, 2008
Angolans always look for the open man. They ussually play the 4 out 1 in formation. Their ability to drive the ball hard to the hoop and when the defense reacts they kick out to the open man. They can do that all day. Most of the gaurds can do that and when the defense handles the drive and kick well, one of the big boys steps outside and takes an uncontested jumper cos the othe big man is too busy helpin on the drive. No doubt if they get an open look in the 8 sec they will take it but they have the patience to move it around, purposefully.
I have had the pleasure of talking to Pat Engelbrecht, our national point gaurd. He used to play in Serbia and Montenegro. He said that in the old Soviet Union the game was fast and the players were relatively the same height. In order to have the edge over your opponent you would have to catch them with thir back to the ball. From watching Serbia and Russia play now they have changed their approch and rely on set plays but they score 60% of their points on transition offence…
Kimati and everyone who was in Cape Town. Which team(s) do you think play like the above mentioned nations. Im asking this because I want to see how we as South Africans see the game and which direction are we taking.
Baller said on July 18, 2008
i hope Kimati we’ll give us his experiences on that..i recently noticed that some of our local teams are adopting the angolan style of play..correct me if i’m worng Neo..we currently have many of our senior players taking outside shots unlike before..
am not sure if that is what you were doing during the national camps but that to me has kinda elevated our game as a country hence now we are able to compete..
i have seen teams like egoli magics
, vaal and wits alumni who opt for the drive and kick out the ball for the open shooters..for me i think that benefits us mostly cos we giving away too much height compared to other countries..
the question i will ask you Neo and Kimati is, should we develop and adopt a strategy that will be used by all our national teams from junior level or we shud let each coach come with his/her own playing strategy at national level..
kim said on July 18, 2008
This my experience with the MEN’s and had found in some instances the ladies differ a bit.I have found that Serbia,Russia,Croatia,slovia and Lithuian play the type of basketball that Neo was refering to.
There is another brandhi which New Zealand,Egypt and Australia play.They are big and at first glance slow but when they start playing they just outwork inside and then start kicking the ball out as you begin to help.
I have been unfortunate not to coach against a GOOD angolian team like I have seen on the TV set.But a team like Germany,Turkey,Greece would be teams that I would associate Angolian team tactics to.
I would however love to participate and see more African basketball because I see ourselves playing more like a Cape Verde and Cameron.People usually laugh when I say we can play like cameroon.But I watched how we played at the All Africa Games and thought it wouldnt take us long to learn that strategy with the players we have.
Neo said on July 18, 2008
Any style suits the type of basketball we play. Driving and kicking basically means that, you had the drive and the defense recovered and you dont have the lay up anymore,then you kick out to the shooter.
1. When it comes to the style of play, Cameroon is very aggressive, we are aggressive too but we cant sustain that for 40min especially downlow. Cameroon plays the kinda ball that outmuscles and outhussles the other team.
2. I think our game is more Angolan. Everytime Angola plays with 4 shooters and one forward, just in case they miss. One of the shooters has to be a ball handler and one has to be a strong finisher but all have to be able to shoot. In SA we have 7 shooters,Neo,Tsakane,Lesego,Lowell,Quintin,Joseph,Sfiso, and ussually one forward, Kgwedi. That is why Baller you see Egoli playing that game cos it suits us perfectly. We always have mis-matches and we always catch teams by surprise.
kim said on July 19, 2008
Point taken.Dont we think then as a SA team we should start look at ways that we can maintain our aggressiveness for 40min.Just finished watching the Angolians beat China by 1 and everytime they substituted someone they didnt get out of rythem.
No doubt we could play like Angolian but that would mean players like Kgwedi would have to change their game ALOT to play like Gomez and Malgaz.The Forwards of Angola have that ability of hitting that outside jumper on a consistent bases and still post you up HARD.
If our forwards could learn that then SA will definately get EVEN more better.Either way,If you look at a number of teams are going 4 out and 1 in because that gives the Forwards and opportunity to take their 1 on 1 knowing well that there is no help and if a team helps then 4 guys are waiting to pop that 3.
I dont intend shooting our SA team down cos I know the work that the team and individually have been doing and with more support by having more camps.I kinda feel though that it is easier to learn to out HUSTLE a team than have a HIGHLY CONSISTENT bunch of 5 that all can take OUTSIDE shot need be.
What is your take on our point guard position and the backups to that position?The reason I am asking is not to say this player is gud or not but comparing to teams like Angola and the soughts.What do they need to do especially from a shooting perspective.
C ya
kim said on July 19, 2008
Baller
Strategy is very important but needs organisation from BSA.This means coaches that are coaching the natiaonal need to be given workshops that look at the ideal strategy,constantly having feedbacks on the progress is making in achieving that strategy and building up a good develop program that when Neo leaves,you still have youngster Neo’s high that can hit that jumper.
It means provinces will need to be onboard with this cos they are ones that coach these kids when they get home.Provinces will be forced not to take tall players and automatically make them forwards cos they are taller than everyone.
National team coaches would need feedback on the strategy and not the W’s.Currently if the team went to malawi and played,even with the teams that went to world student games,administrators look at how many games you won and lost.No one comes and says Kim you did wrong in a,b,c,d and didnt do well in a,b,c.NO one asks you how was your preparation and how can we improve that part.
Coaches are given a task for a Tourney and then after that we wait and see who is selected to take over or continue.Neo,after coming back from Angola did the team meet again?
Katlego said on July 21, 2008
National side PG position? our players are pretty good but we also need bigger ball handlers to handle the change of pace and pressure that some teams emply when they see our relatively smaller size at guard.
Kim’s got a point, some coaches see a tall player, even from a young age and automatically make them a forward.
we all understand that height will give advantage in as far a winning games but if you allow all the players to learn basics like ball handling and long-range shooting then we’ll go a long way. How many times have you heard “why are you shooting that, are youa guard!!!??” coming from a coach? makes you think…
Neo said on July 21, 2008
The point gaurd possition is a very complex yet easy position. The state of our basketball has been guilty of depriving our current point gaurds the mental and physical ability. There is so little competition that our level of play is a non-competitive one. Take Nhlanhla from Vaal, he is quick, can handle the ball and can hit a mid range jumper, he knows that he’s quick ,so he wont work on any other aspects of the game like physical strength or shots from beyond the arc. Question, how many of you have ever seen Nhlanhla make a left hand layup, dont worry I’ll wait……………… not never. He would think to himself why would I work on that if I can blow by opponents.
When basketball was still strong we had point guards like Manny Mdondo, Tshepo Ditshego, Vincent Ntunja and Thabo Mabolelong these guys played at a high level and because of that they could take the pressure of internation ball.
I remember in 2005, when we qualified for the 1st time for the African champs, we were playing Moz, in Moz, in the final and whoever won that match would progress. Nhalnhla was runnig the point and I was at the 2. Moz went on the full court press. When Im playing Nhlanhla I always run the break.In the second quater I could hear the ball bouncing but could not see where it was. When I finally used my eco location I realised that Nhlanhla was trapped and I could see was his little size 9 shoes trying to wiglle its way out of the corner. His speed counted for nothing then cos the other players were too big and knew he couldnt go right.
Until we get a 6″7inch point gaurd we have to work with what we have. We need to have scoring point guards, point gaurds that are a threat to the defense. One point guard who is very good is Patrick Engelbecht. the only floor is that he is not a scoring point guards and that put a lot of pressure on the other players because the defense would let him go and double on the other scorers. Oh yes he can handle and pass the ball like the best of us.
The one thing I like about the point guards that we have in GP, don no bout the rest of the country, is that players are now realizing that you dont have to dribble the ball in your hands all the time to be called point guard. Player are trsting their teamates and cross the halfway line and get it back, that saves time and energy.
Like I said we dont have T-Macks of this world. We have to use what we have if its a 5″9inch point guard lets equip them with the arsenal that they can use.
kim said on July 21, 2008
Did anyone watch Angola win the Stankovic cup against Russia.Serbia and China.That gives me hope for SA as well cos I can remember when Angola went to these games and kept on improving and now they have won.GREAT for African ball
Baller said on July 21, 2008
this is a very interesting topic and surely believe that it will halp most of us with all the experiences being shared..i also believe that at a youbng age, we should let kids play basketball and not restrict them to any position..that will in future help us a lot..
i do agree that our players see no benefit in them working an extra mile cos they believe they’re the best in the country..its up to us as provinces to produce quality players to create that competieion that is much needed to compete internationally..
we sure can do that as a country..i believe we can compete with any african country at any given time..one thing that i believe killed us was that our players lacked game time due to being inactive for a while and not competing with the best around..
you look at our senior team and you’ll be impressed when they play which i think is a good building step..what is left is to arrange friendly international games for us to keep improving..we can’t always be sitting waiting for qualifiers and think that we’ll improve..
the other aspect i believe we need in our sport is the involvement of sport physicians or whatever they call them..am saying that cos i believe that they will be able to physically condition our players at their maximum potential..that is my take..
Neo said on July 21, 2008
I just had to make the 100th comment Nje….
Sifiso 'Money' said on July 21, 2008
One “LOP GIANT” down courtesy of Putos Phly and theres still a few more to come. It’s David vs The Goliaths of LOP and we all know how that story ended in the bible huh! Just had to make the 101 comment……