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Jhb league – PBHS vs. St Benedicts High School – 11/10/2008

By on October 18, 2008 in High School

On a warm Saturday morning, Pretoria Boys High School played their 2nd game of the term against arch rivals St Benedicts High School at home. With this being off season and most schools focusing on next year’s preparations, the coaches were bound to experiment. With the matrics busy preparing for their exams, the teams look a bit different and the rookies were keen to impress. In the first games of the morning, the U14A and U16A teams opened proceedings in front of a vocal crowd of parents and schoolmates.

In the U14A game, PBHS was too strong for their opponents. They looked more confident and took the game to their opponents with some good rebounding and some fastbreak basketball. In a very surprising move by their coach Sibusiso Ntombeni, PBHS played a zone defence throughout the game while St Benedicts went with a man on man defence. The zone defence and some dodgy calls seemed to frustrate St Benedict but PBHS looked eager to get the game over and done with by half time. They always had a lead to work with and in the end despite a late rally from the St Benedict team, it wasn’t enough. This was a second victory for the U14A. After the game, St Benedict coach, James Mtwetwa said that by next year his team would be ready and would overturn the result.

In the U16A game, St benedicts started strong and finished strong. St Benedict is a well balanced team with good posts and guards that made life difficult for the hosts. PBHS started nervously and were made to pay for their slow start. With the home team making numerous turnovers, it was layups after layups for the visitors. When PBHS managed to get past the speedy St Benedicts guards, they found resolute defence close to the basket from the posts that were not in a charitable mood and blocked most of the shots. In the 2nd half, PBHS had their run capitalising on the complacency and some decisions in their favour to get the score to within 2 baskets. But with players exhausted and not enough depth on the bench; the home team had to look on as St Benedict deservedly beat them by 3 points.

Wednesday 9/10/2008 results: PBHS vs Jeppe High School

U14A  PBHS 20-9 Jeppe

U15A PBHS 18-19 Jeppe

1st team PBHS 37-33 Jeppe

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  1. Joe says:

    I’m sorry, but this is bullocks, since when is PBHS and St Benedict located in Joburg. Unless I do not know my Geography, PBHS is inTshwane and St Benedicts is in Ekurhuleni.

    If I am right, how then do these participate in a JHB league, especially when there is a Tshwane league and the GSBC.

    No wonder our standards will not improve, it is because of such puzzling arrangements between schools who refuse to transform or do not take bball seriously. And what are the bball people involved with these saying about this?

    This league has no right to call itself a Joburg league, I think the name should truly reflect the nature of this league ie Gauteng Elite Schools Basketball League.

  2. Katlego Malatji says:

    fact brother! I am not certain about the Ekhuruleni league arrangements but I believe the pretoria league should be forcing issues to have their league run throughout the year. the only reason these teams like PBHS play the “Joburg” league is because there are no other options around them. all regions should do their utmost to ensure that their programmes run throughout the year,that is the only way we will progress. as things stand right now it will just be a case of the elite and good getting better and the rest regressing!

  3. Victor says:

    Hi Joe,

    I think you don’t have the facts so you are jumping the gun on the matter.

    I’m going to speak from personal experience having coached at PBHS a long time ago :). I don’t know how things work in Ekurhuleni but as far as the high school league goes in Tshwane it runs during the 2nd term ONLY. So Pretoria schools like PBHS and St Albans that have basketball all year round have to look for a well organised league to take part in during the 1st and 4th term and this was the best option available. I don’t even know if it should be called a league per say because there are no trophies or standings and it feels like a series of competitive friendlies between rival schools. Most of these schools have long standing traditions that transcend the sporting code boundaries from the basketball courts to the rugby fields to the soccer fields to the cricket fields to the waterpolo pool to… The one team plays at home during the one term and away the next, this also exposes the players, fans and coaches to different opposition. In the 3rd term its usually tournaments. This system worked well when I was at PBHS because in the 4th term you would prepare for the following year and in the 1st term you would fine tune for the Pretoria league. I’m sure if there was a league running in Pretoria in the 1st and 4th term then these schools would take part in it elitist or not.

    As for St Benedicts since they are in your district you should ask them why they don’t take part in your league if there is one running.

    I’d love to publish about leagues taking place in Ekurhuleni/any other part of SA so that schools like St benedict, PBHS and St Albans can have a wider choice close to home.

    On the name of the league, that’s what it’s called… Just a thought Joe, the GBL didn’t change its name because Panthers from Free State were playing in it, did they? And Panthers travelled +450km to play in Gauteng to improve their standard and get competitive games amongst other reasons.

    Ciao, V

  4. Joe says:

    V

    First mistake: you presume that I do not know what I am talking about. I was involved in this league with Jeppe, therefore I am very knowledgable about its structure and history.

    Second mistake: you presume that EBA must run a schools league. Schools have their own basketball people eg Neo & Dan. Therefore as EBA it is not our mandate to run a schools league.

    Third mistake: you compare the Panthers scenario to the PHB. As you said, this tournament has a history and as I have pointed out, this league only consists of “priveledged” schools, while GBL accomodate everyone.

    Fourth mistake: your defence of this league says that this league should continue as is.

    My point is schools basketball needs to be tranformed. As I have stated, schools sport is governed by the schools, therefore those involved in schools should lead this process.

    Also, it is time that we call a spade for what it is a spade, not hide behind names. Fact is, as you pointed out, this ‘league’ has a history and I am saying this history needs to be relooked.

    If they do not want to transform, then I say they should be named appropriately in this case Gauteng Elite/Previledged Schools Basketball League.

  5. neo says:

    Joe

    Each and every district in Gauteng has their own district associations which means that each and every district must make sure that those have leagues to participate in. If PBHS feels that there is no basketball in Pretoria during the 1st and 4th term they are welcome to find leagues which do. What we need to do as districts and I think structures like TBA, EBA and JBA can come in, is find out why is there no leagues in Ekuruleni or Tshwane in the those times of the year. You cant blame a kid for going next door to find food if there is no food at home.

  6. Joe says:

    Guys

    I am not arguing that PBHS should not be participating in leagues outside of Tshwane when there is no basketball in Tshwane.

    What I am arguing is that the ‘Jhb league’ name is incorrect as this league only caters for certain schools and that these are very priveledged and elite. I am also arguing, as V confirmed, that this ‘league’ does not respect basketball, as bball is usually a sideshow to the other sporting codes that go with the ‘league’.

    Again, all I am arguing is that this ‘league’ is not a ‘Joburg league’ as it is claimed in the article, but rather a ‘League of Distinguished’ schools, therefore its name should reflect this.

  7. Victor says:

    Hi Joe,

    I don’t want to get into a mud sligging argument but you are very selective on the subject. You have your opinion and I have mine and we don’t have to agree.

    I don’t know how this league started, its history and what the process is to get a team to play in it and honestly while I was coaching there it was the Master-in-charge job to worry about that. My point is whether a league is called elitist/priviledged, if there is no alternative then that’s where people will go. Some schools obviously don’t have the sports budgets to travel between pta and jhb for a game but that is another can of worms all together, hence they only play basketball during the 2nd term in Pretoria. I’m sure that if any school can fulfill their fixtures home and away they would be accomodated in the joburg league because I see “Dominican College” is taking part and they weren’t there when I was coaching so teams are not cast in stone.

    I don’t recall saying or writing about the league not respecting basketball, on the contrary, my experience at PBHS recently showed that the sport is growing and there was a full fixture of basketball games on the day with the 1st team game being the main event. I don’t know how it worked at Jeppe but at PBHS ALL the form1s have to attend first team games and the rest of the pupils are there voluntarily; so if after the 1st team basketball game there is a 1st team waterpolo game everyone goes and supports it… Parents and supporters are there from U14 game through to 1st team. I like the system because kids and parents get introduced to various sports. So anyway basketball is no sideshow…

    On the GBL, if I’m not mistaken they didn’t allow Pretoria Heat to play in it? Not very accomodating is it? First year so we’ll overlook the mistakes.

    And yes I believe the league should continue if there is no suitable alternative. I’m all for transformation but it’s not going to happen with us sitting down and being critical of everything.

    Ciao, V

  8. kim says:

    I know I made a joke in the latest coverage of the ‘elite’ league as Joe calls it but what I want to findout is:

    1)Has the disadvantaged schools ever requested to play the elite?
    2)If yes,have they been allowed to participate?
    3)Is there a structure that is running Schools Sport in Gauteng?
    4)Who is the custodian to name the school leagues?
    5)What role is GBA supposed to play in this regard?

  9. Joe says:

    V

    Firstly, Pretoria Heat chose to participate in LOP instead of GBL, they were informed numerous times that as a Tshwane team they should be participating in Tshwane, therefore it was their own doing not to be in GBL.

    Victor, we need to debate issues and not run away from them, this is what we always argue when it comes to GBA and BSA. My take on things has always been we are all to blame for basketball’s woes. It is my contention that we need a complete system overall and not just BSA.

    As a bballer in Ekurhuleni I personally take responsibility for the lack of development in Ekurhuleni and I continually challenge myself to improve this. Included in this process is the constant review of the structure to ensure that it meets the goals of development.,

    Throughout my basketball career I have been amazed at how people are always looking at BSA and GBA but hardly ever look at themselves. As a coach one is judged by how well your team is managed. Only when you can prove that you are a good coach can one have a say about how other coaches should coach.

    My intention on this article, like in most post, is to spark debate for us to be able to realise basketball needs transformation in every little cornerl. This ‘league’, like GSBC & Pretoria, need to be contexualised within proper historical and political background.

    As much as this league is accompanied with much funfare as you point out, my question is, compared to rugby and cricket, how much is spent on basketball by these schools? The length of the basketball season compared to cricket and rugby is also revealing. Again in this “league,” basketball is part of a inter-school festival including other sports which has been by invitation, hence its exclusivity.

    All I am arguing is that this ‘league’ needs to pe properly named with the above guidelines and the name “JHB league” is not the correct name for this league. In case you may not be aware, Johannesburg is a city which includes Soweto, Alex, Diepsloot, Orange Farm, why are schools from these areas not in this “JHB league”? I can bet my last cent that they were never invited cause they never fit the priveledged/elitist status.

  10. Joe says:

    Kim

    The questions you are asking are questions I have asked myself without an answer. However, I made the following conclusion.

    Currently our school system is divived into private, semi private and public schools and this also affects sport governance. Private and semi private schools are self governed while the public schools are partly governed by the Provincial govenrment through the Shools Sport department. Basically what this means is that structures ie BSA, GBA, EBA are not responsible to run/organise schools sport.

    In theory, through the Memorandum of Understanding signed between the national Sport Department, the Education Department and SASCOC, structures are supposed to be consulted in public schools sport governance, however this is not happening practically. In terms of the private and semi private, as the name explains, these are privatetly governed, therefore structures have no say at all and it is the perogative of the school to work with the structures.

    From the above, it should be evident that contrary to popular belief it is not the mandate of the structures to run schools leagues, on any schools programe for that matter, but that of the people involved in schools. If a structure wants to run a schools programme it can only do so with the permission of schools sport.

    Additionally, as you may know, previously, the public schools sport was governed through the USASSA, from which Sis Gezi (BSA and GBA) emerged. However, this structure was disbanded, with each code left to fend for itself. Meaning, people in schools involved in basketball must form their own structure eg Gauteng Schools Basketball Association. These in turn will affiliate to the BSA through a national body South African Basektball Schools Basketball Association, and also affiliate to GBA as an associate member.

    Therefore, as structures (GBA) we can merely consult with the schools stuctures how best to run schools bball, but they have the final word.

  11. kim says:

    The situation that Joburg finds itself is not unique because basketball in Port Elizabeth was like that as well.This was resolved by schools coming together and drawing a plan for the development of basketball.Grey High School used to be so exclusive but when they saw other ‘private and semi-private’ schools competing against each other,they also jumped on to the bandwagon.

    I dont think however that the ‘elite’ schools as you call them dont want to play with disadvantaged schools from the kasi but I think its easier for them to ask another school where their rugby team would play.I dont think its a sidekick but they are looking at opportunitys to grow the sport at the elite schools which I really commend.

    I think If there is a fully functioning GSBA body then you will be able to address how do we get ALL schools participating against each other regardless of their eliteness.If the schools that participate in this league happen to be elite and have a ‘joburg league’ going then let them call it a ‘joburg league’ and then maybe other schools might want to join and then you have a building block to work from.

    Lets also understand that some of those disadvantaged schools might not have means to go and compete in Pretoria or travel to the elite schools and vice-versa.The GSBA would then workout how they would break-up the leagues per district but also allowing schools that have specific rivalries to continue with those so as to increase a support base.

    I for 1 support the ‘elite’ to continue with the way they are going and continue calliing it joburg league.I however hope that they start identifying some the concerns and see how they then invite or include other schools in making sure that the game grows because that is the foundation for our sport to be taken seriously.

    I think they must also push to have the formation of this schools body to ensure more competition and address issues that need to be addressed.I do understand your concern Joe with this whole thing but who is supposed to fix it?

    LET THE CHIILDREN PLAY

  12. Joe says:

    Kim

    As I said, it is the perogative of schools sport to sort this out. I have previously tried to encourage this, earlier as chairperson of GBA and now at Ekurhuleni level and I was met with sharp resistance from some of the organisers of these leagues. They have build these laagers and are very comfortable with status quo.

    My point, as always, is that we cannot tranform BSA and GBA while in our own yards we refuse to transform. We cannot continue to scream at BSA for not doing the right thing and justify our own disorganisation. The current schools basketball scenario in Gauteng, and in the country, is skewed towards historicaly priviledged schools and this hampers proper development of bball in the country.

    What upsets me is when these priviledged organs masqurade as inclusive organisations by naming themselves inappropriately, punting their success as if this was achieved through equitable means.

    Again, I am in no way saying STOP THE CHILDREN FROM PLAYING. I am merely saying the ADULTS MUST STOP USING THE CHILDREN to justify their refusal to transform. If this league was to change its name to an appropriate name, this will not STOP THE CHILDREN FROM PLAYING.

    WHAT IS IN THE NAME, you may ask, EVERYTHING. The name is a representation of something, imagine if a motor vehicle was named a motor bike, this will be deemed senseless as it is not a bike. Ask any branding or organisational design expert, it is important that the name reflect the true nature of an organisation.

    As you can see from my argument, I am in no way saying that there should not be ‘elite’ schools, it is a capitalist reality, but rather they should name themselves appropriately.

  13. kim says:

    lol…………What should they call themselves Joe?After your explanation I hear you even clearer.I agree with you with every single point you raise besides their name.If they agreed to change their name,would basketball gain anything?Will the disadvantaged schools gain anything?No.Even if you come and say,with them using that name(Joburg league) the disadvantaged schools are not gaining anything but for me its important that a structure is set up and then say to the ‘elite’stop using that name.

    A name has a significance but If we then just do things for being negative then I have a problem with that.Transformation is key but who is going to push that transformation at the school level?That for me is key.When you have those people then we can start talking about names of leagues but If you dont have those people then(as joe usual says)this will just be a talk show.

    You would have changed the name but there wouldnt be any impact in that.Elite schools will call themselves the Elite League and the disadvantaged will continue to be disadvantaged.A group of people must be willing to work together to achieve the betterment of disadvantaged schools,elite and basketball in your region,Period.

  14. Joe says:

    For all I care they can call themselves Gauteng Superschools League if they want. And yes, if they changed their name basketball will benefit from the positive fen shui emanating from the knowledge we know who they are.

    I know that I am perceived to be negative by the bball community, but I refuse to enter into a popularity contest. As I said I have tried cajoling, to no avail, just as Vusi BSA was overthrown, so must transformation be enforced unto those who refuse to see the light.

    If I am wrong in my stance, then all national teams should have stayed as Springboks and Gauteng should not have changed from Transvaal, and all other name changes that companies have done to rebrand after mergers are all wrong, then Clicks won the famous Glicks ruling incorrectly.

  15. kim says:

    Joe
    My brother,I dont want you be militant especially that the launch of the GBL is tomorrow.Who changed the national teams from springboks and what made them change all the codes and leave rugby?Who changed Transvaal to Gauteng and why?Now lets do the same for schools basketball.

    Lets say we all agree in this forum(for arguement sake)to have these teams not to use the name Joburg in its name,who will go to the elite schools and tell them to stop using the name?

  16. Joe says:

    On the national teams name change, most codes voluntarily changed their emblems as they understood that the Springbok was offensive to some of their members. Rugby, as you know, has proven itself as the last stand for Apartheid and do not see the need to transform.

    Like the above, it is advisable that change is voluntary before we resort to threats. Personally, I have come to realise that bballers are some of the worst hypocrites, but I hope I am proven wrong.

    Maybe Victor can help us with informing the organisers about this debate. In the process he should also confirm the exact name of the league cause last time I was involved with the league they did not call themselves Joburg as it is reported.

  17. kim says:

    I hear you, Joe.

  18. wandile mgwenya says:

    look v,kim and Joe..i am a player in the league and i play for king Edward vii school or better known as KES.. as Mr Thorn being the organizer of the league, it is noticed as the top legue in Gauteng bringing the best basketball schools together to compete although there are no standings issued to the school during the season…the winner of the league is determined by how many games a school( from under14C tean to first team) has won and lost and results are issued to the schools at the end of all fixtures and tournaments..last season my school ( KES) won the league and became the best basketball school in the province by winning 75 out of their 85 league matches.

    Going on to the name issue…with all do respect all of you need to get your facts straight because the name of the league is not the GAUTENG ELITE SCHOOLS LEAGUE or the JOHANNESBURG LEAGUE. th official name of the league is the RBL( the RAINBOW LEAGUE) and hosts its own tournament once a year during the middle of the season inviting the best performing teams in the league at that point in time during the season…

    The reason why st benedicts plays in this league is because it is situated in Bedfordview and bedfordview according t my knowledge is still registered under Johannesburg and is an next door close to East Gate…

    the reason why I say this is the top league in Gauteng which is an actual fact is because it invites the best performing consistent basketball schools in the province to play against each other and when schools like DHS come to tour gauteng, they choose to verse the top three basketball schools in the province and they always come from this league, this year the three teams they versed were KES, st johns and st benedicts and not Rosina or willowridge or midrand high or wendywood which are all from minor leagues with all do respect when i say that.

    I just had to conclude this argument

  19. kim says:

    Wandile
    Thanks for the clarity,this I think has helped us know the truth regarding this matter unless Joe disputes this.As they always say,there are 2 sides to a story and I am happy that you come up to give clarity.

  20. wandile mgwenya says:

    kim
    it’s a pleasure but the reffing does suck in this league especially when my school plays, its like the refs form a little meeting to cheat my school in every way possible lol!!!
    but im gonna keep my mouth shut because we still win even though the odds are against us

  21. Joe says:

    As I said and continued to argue the name of the league should not and never was the JHB league as reported, therefore the author of the article needs to apologise for misinforming us.

    And as I said I really do not care what the league is named as long as it is appropriate, which JHB never was.

    V, I am expecting an retraction.

  22. Setlogelo says:

    I suppose Wandile the young man showed some leadership qualities. Should we rather say he allowed everyone to raise their issues, pondered the arguments and then handed the verdict. His judgement was fair to the parties concerned.

    Vic was defending that which he had little knowledge on. Rather he was defending the structure based on the lack of facts. As he said, the master in charge was the master in charge, period (sic).
    On the other hand Joe relentlessly focused his arguments on transformation. The arguments were not consistent with the report. Let us say Joe argued for the sake of contributing something to the report. There were some good points raised in his argument. Of course one would have to read between the lines to see that. But I would rather not say anything in the media. It is an internal issue which must be fixed by proactive administrators in the basketball community.

    Both Vic and Joe caused an unnecessary stir. Their arguments never seemed to carry any facts with them as indicated when Wandile backed his claims.

    I take my hat off to the leadership shown by Wandile. Your contributions in the sport of basketball are essential. Your views are acting as a solution to the mishaps that have been a feature in our beloved sport. They show willingness to protect the integrity of the sport. It is a showcase of character important in promoting the image of the sport, at all costs. The remarks defended the sport against the unruly perceptions people have about basketball.
    The basketball brand has been through difficult times. Good times lie ahead. Thus our house should always be clean for the visitors to have better perceptions about the sport.

  23. Victor says:

    Hi everyone,

    Joe.

    I don’t think I am misinforming anyone but rather informing them. By that I mean, we receive various emails from around the country; if someone sends us an email telling us that they are taking part in a particular league called JHB/Rainbow/GBL/LOP/Pmb/CBA/…; why am I going to question it? I will share the information and let the users share their opinions on it (let them be judge, jury and executor if that is needed).

    I can’t be going around the country verifying that the name of a particular league is the right one. But the beautiful thing about this website is that if there is an error or disagreement on a particular issue or article then anyone is free to air their views on the matter.

    As far as this particular league is concerned; now that I know the “appropriate” name of the league, I will make sure it is used in future related articles.

    Joe, if you knew what the real name of the league was from the beginning; then this matter could have been settled a long time ago by you informing us.

    Setlogelo.

    Fact is that I got an email saying Johannesburg league fixtures (hence the name in the article), fact is that I coached at PBHS for 3 years so I have a very good idea of how the system worked and works there. I never said that I knew what the real name was but I was responding to Joe asking why schools from Pretoria were taking part in this league and why I felt it should continue.

    I know Wandile means well in his comments but there a few mistakes I’d like to correct: Rosina Sedibane were the best school at first team level in Pretoria in 2008 (they beat PBHS and St Albans hands down this year) but the fact that they don’t have other teams (U14,U15 and U16) counts against them when it comes to the “Rainbow League” because there are so many age groups that compete against each other.

    As far as causing a stir, if by publishing a particular article causes a few disagreements then I don’t mind as long as we try to get to the bottom of the issue together. We actually got the real name of the league so all this was not in vain even if some of us wandered along the way.

    Finally Wandile,

    Thanks for clearing up the name issue and until someone else comes and gives me another explanation, then it will be known as the “Rainbow Basketball League”. As far as how teams are selected I don’t think that you have all the facts with you but I hope someone will enlighten us soon.

    ciao,V

  24. Setlogelo says:

    Vic

    I strongly believe in Candor. It loosely means dicussing issues towards the best decisions which will add value to an idea. Thus I stand to agree that the discussions brought culminates into a new thinking as we have seen above.

    I actually get suspicious when people do not talk. Candor causes a stir. Emotions run high.That is the best thing about it. And I do like such discussions myself, particularly when they promote the image of the sport. And they did in this case.

    The name of the league was not my interest. But I learnt the system of accumulating points. Perhaps we should identify schools which have the dominant sport of basketball. Then we have a competition where the winner will be a team that has accumulated points through its ranks. It is a reasonable system.

    pps. So Wandile can make a good leader? He sure can stand up!

  25. Joe says:

    LoL…….

    Setlogelo

    For a moment I was beginning to worry that ballers do not have critical analysis skills. So thank you for your observation that my aim with questioning the name of the league was to spark debate on school sport transformation.

    Quite rightily, I knew the name of the league, since I participated in it and it would have been easy for me to correct that. However, I am happy that this has resulted in us openly debating schools basketball hoping that this debate will not end here.

    Victor

    It is my understanding that as a journalist or publisher incorrect information reflects badly on one’s publication and leads people to question whether the publication can be trusted. Therefore to ensure the continued trustworthiness of this website, it is advisable that information is checked before it is published.

    Alternatively, you can quote the source of the information cause in reading the article it gives the impression that you are the source of the article, this is practised journalism principle.

    I think you should also further investigate the issue of the selection of teams as a follow up article, this is always a journalist responsibity. In the meantime, I stand by my first assertion, that this league has its beginnings on elitism and continues to be perpetrate this.

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