KZN Basketball EXCO Meeting 2009
Notice is hereby given of the KZN Basketball Association EXCO Meeting that is scheduled as following:
Please note that this meeting is for Exco members ONLY!!!
Date : 08 February 2009
Venue : Durban High School
Time : 09H00
The agenda of the meeting is as follow:
- 1. Opening Remarks
- 2. Minutes of last meeting
- 3. Reports: BSA
Coaching and Technical Clinics
Districts Associations
Kwanaloga Games 2008
National Senior Championships 2008
Other
- 4. Constitution Review, KZN Basketball Policies and KZN Rules & Regulations
- 5. Strategic Plans 2009 – 2013
- 6. School Sports, USSA Programs and Leagues
- 7. KZN Basketball League/s
- 8. KZN Draft Calendar 2009, Programs and Competition.
- 9. KZN Basketball Council Meeting
- 10. General
- 11. Date of next meeting
- 12. Closure
You attendance is highly compulsory.
Information provided by Vusi Mhlongo (secretary general of KZN basketball association)
I just wonder if all provinces get to do what KZN is doing.Preparations for the year.I note in their agenda that they will be reports on various things including BSA.What I have always questioned myself is Why there is no representative from this province in the BSA Board?
Even though they do not have a strong senior league like GBL,they still give Gauteng a tough time on the court.The recent/2008 senior tournament is an example of that,the PBL finals where the Panthers won by 1 point is another example.These points i am making are valid people when you look that most of the players from Gauteng play for the National team.Now if they struggle to beat KZN winning by 1 or 10 points,we are going to have a problem in Africa.
Whilst Im on the National team,one is aware that the Camp starts today and it will be interesting to see the final team.If the National team is still dominated by Gauteng players especially those who have been there in the past thenSouth African Basketball has a problem.one would expect 50% of the team to be new and young guys.Likewise with the Technical stuff…I heard that Craig Gilcrist has declined the coaching position.His reasons are legit.There is 2 camps that takes almost the whole week each.You then leave for the tournament which is another week.Which employer will be happy to pay someone who has been absent from work fo almost a month and have to be given the information overnight.There is trouble here my people.
Moving on to their girls team,give them 1 to 2 years,KZN women will be the finalist in the senior tournament.Considering that they had 5 under 15 girls in the team they brought to Alice.One can expect them to be contenders of the coming under 15 champions.Do not forget that in the last under 18 tournament in PMB,they beat Gauteng in their first match and lost to Limpopo in the finals.
Now this is a province that one need to compliment because their basketball programms are elevating the province.I am sure by 2013 they would have achieved their goals.It is no doubt that the province has the best talented kids in the country.Their junior programms are the best.
Certainly they deserved to represented in the BSA Board.
Otherwise,well done KZN Basketball,we wish you the best in your plans.I hope other provinces are learning.
I was going to say,maybe Molupe can tell us why they are not in the BSA Board since he worked in KZN.
Lorenz
You raise some good points my brother!
Things are too quite for my liking, let me stir the pot.
Lorenz
KZN was represented in the previous BSA by Mr Zondi (VP Provinces) you can draw you own conclusions about his involvement, I suspect that this was held against the province. Also, we need to know who represented KZN in the AGM and did that person push for KZN, before we can start throwing stones.
KZN has failed to organise a league of GBL standard, KZN basketball has been divided, on one corner the HAVES and the other the HAVES NOT. Fact is Gauteng won the seniors, it is only logical that its players might dominate. Fact is the “PBL” was a farce and cannot be relied upon to judge. Fact is we do not have the stats nor the qualitative report of the Seniors to be able to make an informed judgement.
Kim
Thank you for acknowledging the points i am raising.
Joe
First let me say that some of the people including the the current president were serving in the past BSA excecutive.Are we saying KZN reps were left out because of Mr Zondi?Is Mr Zondi KZN Basketball Association?Also I need to inform you that KZN had an AGM last year where the new president of KZN Basketball Association was choosen.His name is Sanele Mthiyane who has valid credentials in basketball.He coached junior teams including the U19 SA Schools Team that went to Zambia in 2004 and brought gold.He holds a National Grade 1 referees certificate.A qualified facilitator.He has been asports administrator for the last 3 years.He has worked at Durban High School until 2005.He was part of the team that toured USA with DHS.He has been scouting players and has his own basketball academy that the like of Stanger,Sphe Yao have gone through.This guy has valid credentials for the position in the board than some of the people who have nothing going on in their provinces.
He was the person together with their secretary who have been attending the meetings where the new board was elected.
So I dont think it is fair for you to say because of Mr Zondi was part of the past leadership theirfore people who are doing a good job from KZN must be judged according to that.He has passion for the growth of basketball in the province.It is through him that we are seeing these developments in KZN.
Secondly,KZN basketball has never been divided.Unless you can put some clarity in that point.If you look in their agenda,they have a report on districts associations.Now,KZN has 10 districts plus Ethekwini Metro.Previously Basketball was played and active PMB,Durban,Stanger and Skhawini.But through KwaNaloga Games,in the past 5 years there has been basketball in all the districts.Having spoken to their president and some of the EXCO members,they have manage to form Districts Associations in most of the districts.Now what does this say to you Joe?
I think we need to give credit where it is due.Also,Gauteng is not the centre of basketball in this country.They brought in old players to Alice with 1 or 2 young players who did not get court time.WHY???Do you see my point?
Coming to the issue of league.If you did read the Memo,there is a point about it.I guess they have realised that it is one of the challenges they have.Surely it will be discussed.
It is also a fact that GBL is made out of mostly JHB and Tswane teams ONLY with some of the teams coming from outside the province.One can measure the strategy of GBA.As they have till 2013,let us see what they have.
On your point about PBL being a “farce”,I dont think you are correct.I would rate it better than the senior tournament in Alice.The teams had enough time to prepare for games.It was not just a team that had players who getthered for 2 weeks to go and play.I think PBL stats could give us a good assesment.
The fact is KZN is a treat to Gauteng especialy the senior mens team,even though they dont have a league running yet.I compliment them.
By the way Joe,Mr Zondi is no longer an EXCO member in the province not because they suspected anything.I think you were out of order to judge him because there is no evidence brought to the public about what they were suspected of.
Next time,understand the content of someones point before your obsession for GBA.They are provinces who are doing something as well.
You know,yesterday I could not stop thinking about Joe’s sees KZN as a province that is out of order or with no direction.It made me wonder which province he comes from.
If the BSA Board was elected on the basis of getting rid certain people and provinces particulary KZN.Then it has a problem.I so wish to take Joe and others who have a similar understanding about KZN on on the number of issues including KZN.
I think that we must stop thinking that now that the BSA Board is made out of Gauteng people then those people including their players are the ones to give orders.Basketball belongs to everyone in this country.I have some of the questions I would like people to answer and strongly fairly on them.
1. Why is guys like Molupe Thelejane not part of the Coaching in our National Teams?Is it because he never coached Vaal or close to Flosh,Tsepo and the rest?
2. Everyone knows Flosh has been coaching Vaal for a long time.The players that dominate the National team comes from Vaal.He coaches them at USSA tournaments,Coaches them at GBL,Coaches the same players when Gauteng plays in the inter-provincials…So this guy is always with this National/Club and they win by 1 to 10 points against KZN???That is whay im saying we need change.We need a new team that will represent us because if it still the same team that went to Algeria and Angola in 2007 then we have a problem.
3.Coming to KZN,Is it not the fact that the Engen U18,eversince it was BSA,KZN has ONLY lost it once to WP?
4. Is it not the fact that DHS is the only club that has won the Engen U18 Club Champs?
5. Is it not the fact that DHS High School Tournament is the biggest high school tournament in the continent?
5. Is it not the fact that the ONLY province that has more “supporters” in any baskeball event?Look at the recent IPT,the players were supporters.
There is quite a lot of things I could say about his provice and basketball and not to forget that it has good,quality and qualified coaches.Joe you know what I think,I think that Craig Gilcrist is supposed to be our National Coach.Not because he is from KZN.But for a change.
Lastly,all im saying is that our basketball reqiures change and change will come with the plan and I think KZN Basketball has been successful and will be because they have decided to get on planning.Truth is there is NO politics in KZN and watch them as in the coming years,they will be winners in all competitions.
Lorenz
Just some corrections before I engage in this debate:
1) Molupe Thelejane is currently the assistant coach of the USSA national team.
2) The supporters issue can be debated but I would argue that WCBA has the BEST support base of basketball.Watch the WCBA finals.
I am actually happy that you raise the issue of Kzn because no one ever does mention it.I believe that you have mad talent in that province administrative,coaching and playing.I however would not base my arguement on DHS because just because the host the ‘best high school tournament’.
One can count numerous tournaments that have been won by GP.One can look at the senior tournament last year and state GP is the best.Whether they win by half a point orby 50.If one looks at the record of the USSA GP teams,you will recognise that not 1 team from KZN featured in the top 4.Actually in both Men and Women you will realise that 3 of the 4 positions were filled by GP teams.Does this then qualify them to be incharge of BSA or basketball as a whole?
The reason why I raise these issues is not to say I want GP to take over basketball but I disagree with the methodology in which you use for putting Kzn as ‘leaders of excellence’.DHS doesnt make KZN,same way that Vaal doesnt make Jozi.I alo disagree with your statement that Craig should be coach because of change.We must be careful to say we put people in positions just because of change.If Craig should be coach then he should go in there because he has the qualities of a good coach,which I think he is by the way.But just saying we want change is crazy.If you want change why dont you Put in Mxolisi,thats change mos.
I believe in selecting the best players for the national team regardless where they come from.If the best players in that team are from Jozi then so be it,I however feel that this years team will have a couple of players from KZN,WC and Limpopo.This based on the performance of teams in Alice.Dont forget that team performances are based on numerous factors i.e preparation,coaches,tactics etc so 1 needs to take those issues into perspective.
I however agree with your perspective that GP is not the be all of basketball but AGM and elections are a political GAME.How does KZN position themselves to play that game.Please do not say KZN has no politics…..EVERY province has politics…….even soccer,rugby,cricket,netball,athletics has those politics.The difference comes where in how the people handle those politics.
Lorenz
You are letting me down on your knowledge regarding basketball. Not that I know anything but what you comment on seem to expose your vague views.
Nonetheless KwaZulu Natal has failed to step up regarding the seniors. For instance the KwaNagola games are not a concept of KZN basketball. They are owed by the local government and include majority of sporting codes. Thus it is only logical that the province organise itself in a manner which considers the structures for participation as required by the organising body. That manner is participation through the districts. Great opportunity there!
Spectatorship is a challenge everywhere. I have always known DHS to be the best basketball school in Africa. That reputation can only be complemented by the spectators who would watch their stars in action. School sports is bigger that most sporting codes combined. It is bigger than university sports. (After 2010 world cup, marketers may look into high school sports. In fact they have already started).
On that note I support the programme planned to promote university basketball in order to attract sponsorship.
Once again, DHS is the best in the continent. Their programme is run so effectively and efficiently that it seem to monopolise basketball in the continent. Although some skills get exported those remaining in KZN waste their athletic intellect since there is no senior development in the province.
Last, the criticism against Gauteng senior team to Alice is absurd. Remember that due to the lack of PBL, the athletes spend an extended number of years in the development of basketball. It is not surprising that skilled players will retire without the professional experience. Sad but true!
We need change which will be motivated by the development of professional basketball. Then things will fall into place.
Lorenz and Setlogelo
Why do you think DHS are the best in Africa?Where is this coming from?Maybe I am out of touch with basketball in Africa.
Kim
I talk about the effective and efficient administration of basketball. The school seem to be raising a lot of money for excellence in their basketball programmes.
Their staff are dedicated, striving to attract and develop extra-ordinary athletes into their fold. Many months ago, I got impressed by their recruitment drive. They seem to, at times, recruit the raw talent from rural KZN.
As for the level of play, you tell!
Setlogelo
That I agree and I actually think they are the best in SOUTH AFRICA.I cant go and say they are the best in Africa as Lorenz claims until they prove that.You cant calim to be the best in Africa because you have the best resources and programme.I however would like DHS to engage in FIBA organised tournaments where there would meet the likes of teams from Nigeria,Senegal,Mozambique and Angola.I dont intend in no way undermine DHS but lets not claim things that have not been proved.
During one of my comments after the seniors,I had said that in my opinion the GP team had underperformed and I see that lorenz touches on that.You seem not to like the statement that lorenz raises.I also disagree with him.Why?Lorenz seems to be misleading me.If I look at the players that went to Algeria and Angola,which Vaal product didnt deserve to go those tournaments.To assist in this process I will name them.Neo,Tuka and Thabang.Nhlanhla didnt go to Angola.Flosh didnt coach the GP team,Thabo did.How senior tournaments did Flosh coach the senior GP team?How times do the national team for us to say he is ALWAYS with the national team?How many times did the national team meet in 2008?Of the coaches that have coached SA,who has the best record?
Is DHS a Public or private School
How can we say that DHS is the best in Africa if i never played against the best?Who has the proved statistics the DHS is the best?Has DHS ever played against other school to prove the theory that you are discussing?
Theory and practical is two difference things.Until their beat the best they will never be the best.To be the best you have to prove it the court,not in the paper or by saying their the best
cheers loves of basketball
Kim
Lorenz better answer. I am not for the court side of life.
There are a couple of big high school basketball tournaments in the continent. I know that one is in Kenya. Perhaps DHS can make some plans to challenge their own capabilities. Challenging one’s strength is a good adventure.
Setlogelo,your wisdom of basketball is great,You have summarize the only issues simply
I love it man
Themba
Is DHS a Public or private School? The question is derived from the Joeology manuscript.
What do you say Joe?
Hehehe………..! A few months ago it would have mattered, but I have made a New Year resolution that it does not matter. 😉
Lorenz, what is happening in KZN is highly commendable. In discussion with the chairperson, Sanele Mthiyane, I have liked and am excited by what I have heard in terms of the direction being taken. Those in the know about basketball in KZN will note the challenges that are being addressed by the KZN Executive. I further agree that despite the challenges KZN basketball has faced over the years its performance at provincials and other tournaments have been (on the whole) good. The support for basketball in KZN, especially in PMB, is phenomenal. I am not aware of any other women’s tournament that is as well supported as the annual PMB Girl’s High tournament. Sometimes the support reminds one of the last time SA hosted the African women’s championships – Wembley was rocking. The DHS programme is phenomenal – the sustained excellence, the annual Easter tournament which has grown significantly, travel and playing against US, Senegalese and Nigerian opposition, etc. Furthermore one can point out the number of KZN players that have been awarded scholarships to play overseas, the number of players from the province in the junior SA basketball teams, the spreading of coaching talent within the province – some of the province’s better known coaches are at schools like DHS, Westville, St Charles, Kearsney, Hilton, Maritzburg College, Pmb Girls High, etc. Another positive development has been the emergence of Eskhaweni as a producer of talented players. The 2008 tertiary institutions league, organized and run by Sonny Mutombo and Philani Dludla, was by all accounts very successful and another major step in the right direction. I could go on. Many of these things have not been emphasized enough and KZN people need to highlight them to the greater SA audience. When the province’s achievements are highlighted it will become easier for its representatives to play a greater part in SA’s basketball landscape. Highlighting some of the good things happening in the province is one of the things that Sanele and the KZN exec intend doing more of.
The achievements of KZN can stand on their own. There is no need to compare them with those of Gauteng or any other province. Nor is there a need to compare Craig G and Flosh. Sometimes as we compare we lose sight of some good characteristics and/or performances. Indeed in this discussion forum a lot of the good points made about KZN have been de-emphasized because of the comparison with Gauteng or the continent. Another example, despite KZN teams finishing 5th or lower at the 2008 USSA tourney, as Kim points out, I thought KZN did really well (just as much as I thought Rhodes men did well). Leta Zulu did a good job with DUT, especially after day one where they gave up too many points to Rhodes and Stellenbosch. After those two games they limited VUT to 68 points, and early on in that game it seemed as if a major upset was brewing. 68 points was second only to UJ holding VUT to 64 in the men’s finals. And Lucia Mofokeng had a very good tournament for UKZN women. In fact the overall attitude of both the UKZN and DUT women was very pleasing. The UKZN men were extremely competitive. There were a lot of really good things that emanated from the tournament. In fact the tournament was a major contributor for the formation of their tertiary institutions league.
Talking about brilliant coaching in losses – did you hear what the San Antonio Spurs coach, Greg Popovich, did against the Nuggets? He rested Ginobli, Parker, Duncan and Finley. Media was upset but the move was a coaching masterstroke. I do not know his thinking but I guess that there were a number of things he wanted to do. Firstly, methinks he wanted his other players to see that they can play well against a good team (Nuggets), irrespective of the final result. Secondly he wanted his stars to recognize that their teammates could hold their own against good opposition. Thirdly he wanted to plant a positive seed in his team’s head that they can beat the Celtics in Boston, which they did, in case they meet in the Finals. Loved the idea. BRILLIANT coaching!
Molupe
I like the analysis that you give with regards to the performance of DUT defensively against Vaal in the tournament last year.One thing I was trying to point out the Lorenz is you can do well without necessarily winning a tournament.People have this illusion that one is a GREAT coach(if there is such)if they win.No one ever looks at the improvement of teams and analyse what they have improved in.
In one of our discussions in thi forum I put out my opinion to say that just because you win every game in SA, that doesnt mean that your coaching is good just as losing ALL your games make you a bad coach.There numerous factors that come into play.Coaching is a wonderful journey that one undertakes were learning SHOULD take place on a continuos basis.Comparing of coaches is a no no for me because we have our own ideas on how to make our teams a championship calibre team.Each situation is different and as such cant compare 2 different scenarios and say it is valid.
I cant wait to see the KZN and Limpopo ladies at this tournament because they seem to be improving year by year since the first USSA champs that were held at Wits 2 years back.I predict 2 teams from outside GP to make the semis this year in the ladies section….
Kim
Are you saying that either UJ, Tukkies or Vaal wont make the semi’s this year?
Joe
Yes
Tjotjotjo, big statement, who is likely to miss out and why?
Joe
You are going to make teams hate me if I tell you but since the inception of this tournament the hosts ladies teams have NEVER made semis………maybe tuks wont make it…….hint hint.Just predictions,nothing more than that.
Kim
Before you make statements like that, I think you need to do intensive and extensive research on the teams.
Before everyone gets on my case,I was just joking ladies and gentlemen,just stirring up things.I however think that Limpopo and Kzn has good potential to compete against those 2 teams.
No offense guys