SA National Championship 2008 results-Final day
Finals and Seeding schedule 19 december 2008:
Final placing after the games:
Gauteng came out victorious over Kwa-Zulu Natal in the men’s final while Western Cape finished third and the Gauteng ladies also took the trophy home with a victory over Limpopo in their final while Eastern Cape took the bronze home by defeating Free State in their last Game…
senior national championship handbook
Information supplied by Charles Foster
Greetings to all ballers in this new 2009 season.
Well let me the first to THANK BasketballSA for wonderful tournament that was held in December.I know that I was one who was just wanting to play ball and didnt care even if we played outdoor.BasketballSA organisation was great.I hope that we build from this and keep the high standard that was set.
The talking points for the tourney are numerous and hopefully this month will be dedicated on bringing them out and seeing what we learnt from them.The highlight for me in the mens section was the WP vs GP.The mense van die kaap almost gave Thibo Touch a heart attack.I believe Sfiso came out big.Yeah Jo from KZN kept calling him fat but believe you me that PHAT he was in ensuring that Brendon didnt connect when his team needed him most.
On the womens side Mxolisi ‘# 1 supporter’ finally got his stint as HEAD COACH for the GAUTENG team.I am sure that he will treasure that for the rest of his life,who wouldnt.Coaching the Champions to an impressive win against a WP line-up that seems to be improving by the day even with the absence of players like Jermaine and Jasmine.With Mxolisi on their side I am a true believer that indeed Gauteng is THE HOME OF CHAMPIONS.I can imaagine how enjoyable that might have been for the Gauteng players and how proud the GBA must be proud with Mxolisi’s performance.
Fumani ……what can one say about him.Mr reliable.No upsets and no easy road for GP to the finals.
What a wonderful tourney indeed.Ballers lets engage
Happy New Year, 2009!!!
I hope you all are having a wonderful holiday season.
It is not suprising that Gauteng won the championship.As i predicted that gauteng will win the championship.
There is lot of work to be done in other province to catch up with GP and KZN.It was disappointing that mpumalaga didn’t particiapate in this tournament.
The down fall of Limpopo started at the beginning of the selection of the team.The team trained two days.Limpopo could have done better.One thing i don’t understand,How can a coach who coaches at the highest institution like TUKS not allow competition for players.
The down fall was to select players who never played basketball in the last two years.I hope that Danny as learn lesson that you don’t select a team by phone.
I hope this procedure of selecting players over the phone it was the last time it happens.I hope this year players from Limpopo will be given a fair chance to participate in the trials.
As for fumani it is not suprising that he was at his best.He cannot play by himself.I believe he was let down by unfit players,who were chosen because of favouritism.
Theo
Happy New Year to you too. This is the year for us to make a difference in basketball. This is a year for us to stop moaning and complaining of the past. This is the year to make something out of the priviledges of basketball.
I am overwhelmed at the opportunities that are around for the sport, particularly here in Mangaung. Our only priority in Mangaung is to popularise basketball. There are certain mechanisms which we will implement to set the agenda of letting know the community of basketball. It is not only about play, it is what basketball can do for the entire community.
We cannot make change through inaction and talking. Molomo ga o tshele noka. Loosely translated, we cannot cross the river through talk.
Each one of us must take a decision to be proudly involved with basketball. We do not need passion since it comes with various emotions.
Let us be happy and note those things we are not happy about. Let us act to make better those things we do not like.
This is the new season, a year full of promise. Let us do things differently. As a wise man unknown to me said – “When you do what you always did, you will get what you always got” .
This is the new year. What we do, we must do differently. Even if we moan, let it be different.
Theo
Fumani was also not in good physical condition.Limpopo were not that bad but probably you know the potential that they have.I believe in fighters and majority of the team did that.Jerry,Fumani,Sello,PG from dragons where the guys that stood out for me.I feel that Jerry could have done more with more game time.
I think preparation for the tourney is part of the bigger picture.I fully agree that picking players by phone is wrong especially if they are inactive.Just cos u camp for more than 5 days,that does not guarantee success.This thing called succes is a process.You need to try get the right things done right.FS camped for 5days but didnt come close to winning the tournament.On the other hand GP finalised their team a day before they were on the road to Alice.
WC showed the benefits of a competitive league does to one.Those guys were MONSTERS.I still think my dear friend touch my have a checkup cos those guys almost had it.I think provinces can only get better from here.Surely FS will.Let it be known that GP didnt bring their A game.They brought their C game.With all that talent in their line-up one would expect more.For me they underachieved in performance but took the Gold back home.Thats whats important mos?!?!
I loved the SA team coaches that were selected.The men coaches…..Craig,Flosh and KIta.What else would you want.Experience right there.Nuff said.With Craig Daniels at the helm of the ladies,you have a teacher and I am sure that those gals will do well.Its great that both teams have coaches that can, at minimum level,use a coaching board.I think BasketballSA made the right appointments and wish all these fellow coaches all the best.
SA can only get better with objective selections of our TEACHERS.
Kim
Why was Craig chosen for the women considering that he is man and the WC wowen team did not achieve much?
Joe
Not all great teams have great coachs nor do all weak teams have weak coaches.Greetings Joe,I see you are still there.Well I unfortunately dont know why they choose him.Did you by any chance have anyone in mind?Are you having problems with his selection or any of the selections Joe?
Setlogelo
I agree with you,but a change in digit does not automatically change the problem facing basketball.
We need to resolve the issues that are killing basketball.I believe 2009 must a year that we resolve this issues and have solution to this problem.
I was in Tzaneen this past holidays.People who use to play bball have drafted to rugby.It is not good when you see guys who use play ball goes to rugby.
It is demoralising the spirit of basketball, if we don’t solvethis problem.It is shocking to see the condition of basketball court in tzaneen and nkowankowa.
One business man has started to fund rugby in Nkowankowa,we are lose players because of what’s happening in this beautiful game.
Solution can only come up when we address issues and not complain
KIm
My assumption is that a woman should be a priority when appointing a coach for a women team, unless the men can prove that they are more qualified than the women. I just want to know if there were no women coaches available and why they were not selected? I just want to be satisfied that the decision was fair and not politically influenced especially when it seems to ignore Transformation?
Theo
Thats it my brother,less complaining and more doing.I subsrcibe to that.
Joe
Well I hear and fully agree with you.I for one am happy with the decision especially that BasketballSA then went as far as appointing a female assistant coach who was with the team that went to Zimbabwe at the last qualifiers.I thought that they would have appointed a 2nd assistant coach as well.This would have allowed other capable female coachs to be represented.
There was Asnathi who was coaching the GP team.Thats the only other coach that was there.Brenda was appointed as Craigs assistant.The problem I have is the appointment of a woman coach for the sake of appointing one.If they do it this way then you are guaranteed results unless people have a problem with what he is able to produce as a coach.
I know BasketballSA has transformation in mind because I was also informed that my appointment would also be reviewed as USSA national team coach as well as my assistant.This I feel is necessary to ensure that we dont keep talking transformation but actual implement.I was appointed assistant to Kita when I was coaching a ladies team in 2005,so many there is no formula specifically based on which team you coach.I still maintain that of the coaches that were there,Craig was a good selection.
on the fairness part,only BasketballSA can inform us on why Craig over Brenda,Asnathi or Nicky for that matter.
Theo
I can feel that you will forever complain and do nothing about the state of the basketball courts. Tell you what, it is your responsibility to work towards improving the conditions of the basketball courts in the areas you mentioned. Only you can be able to make the relevant people make funding available for the projects.
As for the business man funding rugby, let us call that a strategic decision. If only one player from the development he is funding can play for the springboks, he would have empowered his community. A springbok contract is worth a few million rands, in one year. And a player does not need to be on the first fifteen to become a millionnaire.
In basketball we do not have that.
Do not play the blame game. It never entertains because it never ends. Thus it does not have memories just reminders of fault without the communicator taking responsibility.
Kim
The question is why was Craig appointed and not Asnathi, especially since she is women and has a long history of coaching behind her and that she won the championship? Surely her appointment would not be a token appointement?
Joe
I think that was your concern in the first place and you should have addressed it as such.I still maintain what I have said above……Not all great teams have great coachs nor do all weak teams have weak coaches.This statement however does not mean that Asnathi is not a good coach but I think you understand what I am saying.Asnathi proved something at the championship though.She basically proved that even Mxolisi could coach GP and that team probably would have won the championship under Mxolisi.Based obviously on the line-up that GP has.
I feel that as coaches we have different personalities and our personalities determine how we react to certain situations.During last year when there was a debate on this site one lady said that she hoped that she was never coached by a woman ever again in her life.Majority of the team in Zim had the same sentiments as well.This is because of the emotions that run in us as coaches.Sometimes we might say things that will make players not play for us.
I feel BasketballSA could have turned a blind eye and pretended that nothing had happended but I feel they have done good by making sure it does not happen again.I do not mean that by them taking out Asnathi,that she was the reason but BasketballSA needed to make a call on how to fix the problem.They have made an attempt and only time will tell if it was the right decision.Maybe Asnathi will be approached for a specific position in the womens arena,we dont know.
The situation that happened in Zim was no different from the decision taken by USSA after the world student games in 2005 where there was infighting and backstabbing amongst technical staff and later players not wanting to play based on how the coach wanted the game to be played.The whole coaching staff was changed.
With Asnathi there or not,BasketballSA made a GOOD decision by appointing Craig.It also made a good decision by addressing the issue of transformation by having a woman assistant coach and surely will have a womans manager.I would have loved to see them having a 2nd Assistant Coach as well,this would mean in 2 to 3 years time when they evaluate their situation and feel that Craig has done the building work,you have 2 coaches who have been part of the technical staff taking over.
Thats my view
Kim
If I follow your argument correctly Asnathi was not appointed because of the perception that women coaches are emotional, as expressed by the players. Basically this means that no women team will ever be coached by a woman. I find this position highly sexist and disciriminatory which goes against the very core of Transformation. What this also ignores is that most women players grew up being coached by men and therefore feel more comfortable with men coaches, thus would not give the women coach the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the problem is not women coaches but the bball community perception of women coaches.
And, if I am not mistaken WC women finished 6th out of 8 teams, why not appoint coaches from the teams who finished above WC if the argument is that GP would have won with or without Asnathi. I also refuse to believe that the WC women team was that bad taking into account the strength of their junior teams, whilst their coach was very good.
Just to clarify, I respect Craig as coach very much because of what he has achieved as the boys U18 coach and with the Montana Vikings. However, I am not sure if his appointment is correct as he clearly did not overachieve in the tournament, if the claim of a weak team is valid. Secondly, there are coaches who throughout the year specialise in coaching women and they should have been preferred.
As the facts above are against the appointment of Craig I am left with no other conclusion but that the appointment was politically motivated and is not in the best interest of Women bball.
Joe
Well I wont comment to the words that you have put in my mouth but what I can agree with you is that Asnathi is probably a good coach.Probably picking a coach that has a good record was on BAsketballSA minds,maybe they wanted a change of face,maybe they wanted a players coach etc,I cant answer for them.I am not talking about perceptions Joe,I am talking about what happened before and during the zone 6 qualifiers.When I say WE,I mean all of us coaches.
You can make a big deal if you like but I dont see anything wrong with the appointment.I see that you continue to profess about giving the winning coaches the jobs.I would therefore ask why then Mandla was not appointed as the coach of GP as he coaches woman the whole year.GBL CHAMPS.If not then why not Nicky because for me she should be first in line as her record speaks for itself.USSA CHAMPS.GBL FINALIST.WINNERS FOR HOW MANY YEARS?Lets keep looking then Nthato’s name must be there somewhere.A decision was taken to appoint Asnathi.That formula you are using wont even have Asnathi has a manager of GP if you look at the final standing of GBL,so please lets not use it.Take into account LOP as well then we are pushing her more and more down the ladder.
I also dont have a problem with Asnathi but do you think she was the BEST candidate for GP?Her good experience speaks for itself and I hope one day I get to sit with her and try understand her.That is what I do when I meet coaches.I spend time with coaches trying to understand their philosophy of bball and seeing what I can learn from them.I dont listen to what people say.I even sit with people regardless of what they might be saying about me to my players.I know I can learn alot from Asnathi and I hope that one day me and her can have some drinks and chat.
What Political agenda do you think is being pushed Joe?Maybe if you address this part then I might see the conspiracy but the angle that you pushing at the moment is not convincing me.
Kim
I agree with you that the GBA appointment of Asnathi can also be questioned, remember I was not involved in her appointment. However one has to consider her achievements in women basketball at School, U18 and now Senior level, none of the coaches you mentioned can boast such a record. My argument is not for Asnathi per se to be appointed but for a ‘Women basketball’ coach to be appointed. Also, I know from personal experience that Asnathi can be a very difficult personality to manage, but the ability to appoint and manage difficult people is what good leaders are made of, are we shying from this responsibility?
As you rightly point out in your argument a whole number of coaches who coach women during the year could have been considered. Therefore the question is why were they not considered? I cannot agree with the appointment of Craig purely on his own merits, his merits have to juxtaposed with others for us to confidently say he is the correct appointment.
Evidence suggests that from both the perfomance and the Transformation guidelines he comes up short. Therefore the only logical conclusion is that his appointment was merely politicallly convenient rather than correct .
As always my argument is premised on the Transformation agenda of this country and also on the proiritising of Women basketball. From my assessment Craig’s appointment falls short.
Joe
I see that atleast we are getting somewhere.If you agree that performance is the wrong tool to use in this regard then lets leave it and not use it.Lets look at transformation only for now.The reason is because one can claim that club coaches are the ones that have been building your Lungile’s,Seipatis,Pupsi,Pumla,Tuki,Kgaugelo etc…the same club coaches that are still here.
I am no longer talking about Asnathi here because this issue is not about her but about transformation.BaskelballSA should in the future make sure that national team coaches dont coach their provinces.Like what happened in the guys.Florsh was there to select.The womens coach must be the same so as to avoid performance issues.BasketballSA pushed transformation in 2007 for the qualifiers and I think they realised that move was a bad move although the intention was GREAT.For us to talk transformation,we need a program in place for coaches.
We need to know that women development is being pushed by program 1,Program 2 etc.We need a plan that looks at how do we best equip ALL coaches and then look at the cream of those coaches.Taking a woman coach and appointing them as a Head Coach of a Senior National Team is not transformation.Transformation for me means equiping them with the skils,expertise,resources etc for them to achieve should and when they occupy the position.This should be done for ALL coaches regardless of gender but more emphasis on women coaches.
You can have a good transformation program but not have a Head Coach who is a woman.If you have a plan to ensure that within 4 or 5 years,women coaches are the ones that need to coach all womens teams.Isnt that a good Transformation program.They will be sent to courses,coaching clinics,write exams,trips to teams in europe,Africa or the americas.To equip them with the skills to be able to run practice,off season program etc.To me thats real transformation.With something like that you are ensuring that you can have 20 years of just women coaches coaching women teams.
Taking Suzzy,Jane or Mary and putting them there cos there are woman is not transformation.If thats transformation then I dont like transformation in basketball.
Oh by the way,I didnt appoint Craig.
Hi Joe and Kim
Transformation is a big issue and fortunately for us the politics are not so intense that this will require national intervention (government). I was in Zimbabwe when the girls were playin for qualification.
We do need to starrt getting women involved in basketball. Do we want to throw the poor coaches in at the deep end and expect them to perform miracles ar will we be visionaries and appoint some1 who is more knowledgable and those female coaches can learn from that coach. If we blindly follow the status quo we will be setting women’s back another 15 years. I saw it in Zimbabwe and I saw it in Korea in 2003 and I kep on seeing it in our high school leagues.
Do we want to be politically correct at the expense of growth or are we willing to patient enough to enable our women coaches, managers and adminisrators.
Neo
What are your key moments of the seniors……….ON the court that is?
Final match, final whistle…….
hahaha……
Hello everybody and happy new year.
Victor, your listing the KZN men’s team was commendable and you updates of the scores was good. Thank you.
Do you have a list of all the players, coaches and managers of the various teams that were at the Seniors? The “regulars” might not need to be commended but those who have “finally” made the provincial teams need to be congratulated.
I also understand that the MVPs and All Stars were selected. Again please drop me some names so that I can congratulate some of them. How about the SA National Teams – there are a few players I am looking out for to see if they made the squad.
I have had a nice chat with Craig Daniels and will have a chat in due course with the other coaches and congratulate them too. Craig G, Nkululeko told me about the good things you did for him. Thank you, but I will call you and chat some more. Kita, go back to Boston – the C’s are losing and need you badly – haha.
Kim, I am still waiting for my updates. Despite where your team finished I am sure that will use the experience to help your team in the GBL. I cannot wait to see the improvement.
Kim
I am aware that you did not appoit Craig, but you supported his apppointment in your cintribution above. My argument is why Craig and not others, until this is answered I cannot agree with your endorsement of Craig.
Neo
Asnathi’s record as a women basketball coach disqualifies her as a token appointment.
i disagree with you Joe on this matter and that wont change……….unless you bring something or someone else to discuss but disagree with your submission.
Talking about people that were left out………..SFISO.Mr defense.Mr how do you like me now.Mr toughness.Out of the team that will have to compete against the physical dudes from Africa.That for me was and is a blunder.
To tell you the truth,I actually thought that he would have been competing with Thabo for MVP.His got the shot.Can make the stop when needed(Ask Brandon) and can bring up the ball.Likely we dont have to compare him to any of the players selected but his work ethic did all the talking for him.I hope that someone reading the names was playing a prank cos SFISO is an A grade player.Make that A+.Even a cow cant knock that BULL down.
There is no way that GP would have won that WP game without SFISO.Brandon was on fire and I am sure there is a logical Coach T put Sfiso on B.I hope the team management does give him a call and tell him that someone was just playing a prank on him cos he deserves it.
to be in the team and not the prank.